Christina Bradley 00:13
Thanks for tuning in everyone, you are listening to another episode of the creativity campus podcast and today I'm talking to mark silver. Mark is the author of the brilliant book create tools for Rome, seriously talented people to unleash your creative life. Mark is also the number one bestselling author of the book advancing your photography. He's an award winning video producer, photographer, and photography educator, his highly popular YouTube show advancing your photography has won several Telly awards, and if photography is something that you are interested in, then I would definitely definitely recommend you checking it out. I caught up with Mark during the height of lockdown. And this conversation just filled me with so much creative energy. This conversation is crammed full of some really helpful tools and tips and techniques to support your creative process and your creative practice and ultimately to help you sit down and create. So I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it. And I shall now hand over to the fabulous Mark Silber. Hi, Mark, It's so lovely to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me
Marc Silber 01:56
My pleasure and you are in one of my favourite places in the whole world. So it's very easy for me to develop where you are and visualise it
Christina Bradley 02:05
while you're actually dialling in from California. So I feel fairly jealous of where you are to be honest.
Marc Silber 02:11
I live in Carmel, California, which is right on the coast. It's a beautiful artistic town. Many artists have lived here, including some of the biggest names in photography. And so Adams lived five minutes from here, for instance, lots of poets and writers. So I'm I feel really fortunate to be in the seat of all this creativity.
Christina Bradley 02:30
And just diving straight in does that actually do you feel inspired? Being around that much kind of absolutely creative energy? Does that actually affect your own creativity? Do you think?
Marc Silber 02:39
It certainly does. I mean, a lot of it's an intangible, you know, but there's a poet, for instance, his name is Robertson Jeffers, he's you know, he's not like a household name. It's not like Robert Frost. But he's known here. And just as one example. I mean, I walked by his house constantly, because it's right on the coast. And it's one of the most dramatic and beautiful coastlines in the world. And he built this stone house and I see it. And I was out photographing in November. We have this thing here called the king tide, where the waves get really big and very dramatic. And I was actually out photographing it. And it was in November, and then something I kind of remembered that he wrote a poem called November tides. And it's funny, I wasn't thinking about it when I was photographing, but I thought about it afterwards. And I quoted his poem when I put this on Instagram, and I quoted his poem. So there's a kind of a synergy thing. Yeah, goes on, you know, with all the
Christina Bradley 03:40
Sort of interconnectivity almost. Exactly. Yeah. I love that. And what I really want to talk to you about today is your fabulous book, create, which I have read. And for anybody listening, who hasn't read it yet, or hasn't heard of it, I'll put all of the information in the show notes. Because it really is such a valuable, I read the Bible of creativity, it just gives so much practical insight and advice. That's as I was reading it, I was like highlighting everything because I just got so much value from it. And the thing that really stood out for me, I think, sometimes with creativity, it feels quite sort of intangible, doesn't it? It's like out there in the ether. And it's like, what does it really mean? And what do we do with it. And what I love so much about your bookmark was it just felt very, it just made it so easy to grasp hold of what creativity is, and actually understand how you can begin to incorporate it into your own life, whether you are looking for a more creative career or just a more creative life and actually gives some really practical tools that people can start using one of which is what you call the cycle of creativity. Yeah. And I'm just wondering if you can talk the listeners through what the cycle of creativity actually is and how it kind of breaks down.
Marc Silber 04:53
Let's dive into the cause a good starting point. This took me a long time you asked me before how long it took me to write the book and you know It took six months, but a lot of it I've been working on for a while, several years, many years. Yeah, I could say my whole life Really? I mean, when you read the book, you can see why I say that, you know, listen, I'm a really practical person, I don't, I don't want to write things that that could be a magnet on your refrigerator, you know, a buzzword that doesn't really have a bumper sticker. And it's like, so let's just try it. It doesn't. It's a cliche, I don't, I don't want to write cliches I want to write in use tools. Because a tool is by definition, something you use, to better things, whether it's in a kitchen, your utensils, or in a workshop, or a brush or a camera. Those are all tools. We'll get into that in a second. But that's really what I tried to outline. And it took me a long time to figure this out. But it's it's holding up. I haven't had anybody puncture this idea and say, Mark, well, this, there's really eight parts to this, and you've only got five, or there's really only three. Nobody has challenged me yet. I mean, I welcome it. Yeah, but this is what I figured out. Okay. And creativity has a beginning, middle and end to it. And that begins with visualisation. And I think we're going to talk about maybe some practical ways to improve that. But visualisation means you get it in your mind's eye before you do it. Whether it's writing a poem, singing a song, baking a cake, you know, writing a book, you have to visualise you have to get the idea before anything can happen. And that's a conscious thing. And, you know, I was thinking about it this morning. Is this as a mental activity? Or is that a spiritual activity? The answer is yes, it's both.
Christina Bradley 06:52
It's both.
Marc Silber 06:53
It really is. And, but let's just let's just keep it as a simple thing, have you get the idea?
Christina Bradley 07:02
Can I just before you go on, can I just clarify something? Do you need to have the whole idea in its entirety? Or do you just need a nugget of that idea?
Marc Silber 07:13
Before you begin really good question, I think it would be impossible to get the whole idea beforehand. So you have to have the, you know, it's like creating a plan, that doesn't necessarily have all the details yet. But you just say, let's keep it really simple. I want to make a great meal for my friends and family when we could do that. Okay?
Christina Bradley 07:38
The good old days,
Marc Silber 07:39
back in the good old days, and we can hug people and have them over for dinner and have a glass of wine, we will do that again. But you might envision this dinner and you think broad strokes. Okay, I want it to be seafood. You know, you haven't really gotten into all the granular things of is it going to be a lobster or halibut or whatever, but you think I want to make a seafood dinner. And I want it to have, you know, a really great salad and I want it to have, you know, wonderful dessert at the end. That's your vision. And your visual, you'll fill in the dots as you go. So that, you know, I suppose you could really get into all the details. But I don't really think that's necessary. I think just the overall vision is
Christina Bradley 08:30
what and also the act of you know, the creative process. It reveals so much, you know, as you begin to embark on it, that's the magic of it, isn't it? And so, actually, I think that I would agree from my own experience that it's not always essential to have the whole picture. And I find that a lot of the time. Yeah, the picture starts to unfold as I assess,
Marc Silber 08:51
exactly develops in anyway, so that your first step is always should be a clear vision of what you want to do. And in writing a book, for instance, you know, when I wrote my first book, I didn't know how to write a book, I written blog posts, and I'd written instructional material and whatnot, but never tackled a whole book. And I wisely my editor wisely said, start with the table of contents, right your table of contents. And what that caused me to do was to visualise the whole book. It was really smart yeah, I took each chapter and then wrote about that, but I'd already had the flow of the book written out and that was the visualisation right there. Yeah. Once you have your vision, you have to know your tools. You can't just say, Okay, I want to, I have this vision of this painting. I've never done one before. I have no idea what brush to use, or it's not going to work. You got to know your tools. And those tools could be of any form of creativity again in the kitchen. In a garden, with a camera with a movie camera, writing, you have a set of tools, and you have to know those. Because otherwise your vision isn't going to be able to go anywhere. And I, I think this is a really important lesson to have a balance because some people and I see them geek out on tools, and it's so easy to geek out. And so much unfortunately, of the internet is concerned with geeking out with tools rather than putting them to use.
Christina Bradley 10:32
Always I think it can be preventative because you feel in less, I've got this, then I can't, and it almost becomes a sort of a block in itself or an excuse. So true.
Marc Silber 10:41
So true. That's why these things all really have to be kept in balance. But you do have to know, whatever tool, whatever form, you're, you're being creative, and you got to know enough to be able to get your vision out to the world. So once you have that, then you have to work your craft. And that sounds like saying, Well, of course mark. But it's one of those of course marks that unfortunately gets left behind. We can get all fired up, we can learn our tools, but unless you put into your life daily, ideally, creativity, or maybe over the weekend, wherever it fits in your schedule, you've got to get out there and work it because it's not going to work itself. Yeah, a book won't write itself overnight with the you know, the some magical fairy, you know, hitting the keys for you.
Christina Bradley 11:31
You've got to do the work.
Marc Silber 11:33
Yeah. And it is work. It's it's a job, it's work, you
Christina Bradley 11:37
know, and it's not always fun is it? I think that's the other sort of misconception that actually creativity is all kind of light and fluffy and fun. And, and actually, sometimes it's really tedious and very boring. You know, just sit down every day and do the work on your own at your laptop if you're a writer. And yeah, and I think that actually, it's not always as much fun as you might think, you know it to be
Marc Silber 11:59
true. And yeah, but it's like any job, you got to work at it and it won't work out, it doesn't get done. So once you work your craft, and this is really important. Let it flow. You know, in the case of writing, that's really important. Just let it flow, let it flow, let it flow, don't try to edit while you're writing. That's a separate process. Same thing with photographing. If you're going, Oh, that's no good, I should have stood over there, this is not any good, you know, you're just putting all this negative negativity back. And this is exemplified in the many interviews that I did. Many different people talk about that, but, but there is an editing stage, once you have put your work out, you then have to edit and refine it. And in writing, this is really I mean, my process is I just write it, come back later, actually send it to my editor, I don't try to do the editing myself. And then I come back, look at their notes. And then refine it. I go through another editing phase. Once it's all done, I then send it out to what I call beta readers. So I usually have 20 or 30 of them. And some are very highly trusted by me. I know, wow, they know what they're talking about. They're, you know, they know what grammar is they know, you know, fine, then there's just I don't want to just limit it to that audience. I want to I want the typical reader to read it. Yeah. And then they come back with ideas. I go, Oh, you're right, or I skipped over something because I know what it is so well.
Christina Bradley 13:42
Right. And they didn't quite catch it. And
Marc Silber 13:45
so I clarify, anyway, that's the editing phase. And, you know, it can be small or large. If you're if you're throwing a dinner party, you you know, you write a menu, maybe you edit it down a little bit, and you remove a few things a little too complicated, you're gonna have three different lines, anything now let's just have to, you know, that's editing. And also the way your space looks is, you know, you have to put attention on those details. And
Christina Bradley 14:13
well, this was something I wanted to talk about, because you've talked in the book about creating your space. Yeah. And I thought this was so cool to read this because I've also read contradictory things about actually how you know, you should be able to create anywhere. And this is just another form of procrastination, and it's just stopping you from taking the action or doing the work. And, and I don't subscribe to that. Like, for me, my creative space. I call it my Zen den is is so important. And it's where I come and immediately feel creative and can immediately get myself into the zone and begin work. So I just loved hearing what you said on this about how important it is and how you can begin to cultivate that that creative space and I wonder whether you can just elaborate on that for the listeners.
Marc Silber 14:58
Yeah, I mean, really, it's a practical thing to, because if you don't have a set space, your tools are going to be scattered all over the place, you're going to spend so much time running downstairs to pick out the, you know, the dictionary that you don't have, or you know, something that you need for your computer. And you're just going to, you're just going to run around in circles. So I always, for many years, I mean, even when I was a kid, put together a space that I could call my own, nobody else's coming in and out, they're not moving things around, and where's my stuff, you know, and so it can be large, it can be small, I, I've gone from a fairly large studio, for instance, in Silicon Valley, to now I work out of my home. And you have to keep it functional. I mean, as I look around, everything in my space has a function. And it's there for a reason, whether it's a pair of, you know, scissors that I'm going to use or my my notebooks are right here, my create book is my, you know, all these tools are within easy reach. It's your workshop, right, my workshop. And it's, it's also there's an aesthetic, and I talk about this the aesthetic of of tools itself. tools have a very, you know, can be very beautiful. You know, this is one, I think we're all familiar with Steve Jobs, you know, came up with who thought a phone could be beautiful. My you know, before that they were pretty ugly, right? I mean, wonky, you know, they fold it out, I've had every cell phone imaginable, you know,
Marc Silber 16:47
a brick, yeah, they had this grid thing and had antenna sticking out, they didn't do any of these things. But his vision was, why not have something functional, really functional, but it's also beautiful, and it's got everything you need in it. So this is important. And I you know, we could touch on this later. But it's important to get rid of things that don't. To us another author's phrase, don't spark joy, don't don't do anything. I mean, why have stuff sitting around that it's has no purpose. Now, I do have momentos like, these cameras, our cameras, like this is the camera I took to Mexico, you know, the camera,
Christina Bradley 17:30
which was when Mark, when were you in Mexico
Marc Silber 17:33
1969 when I was a senior in high school, this is the camera, I had an art school at the San Francisco Art Institute. So these are momentos even though I embarrassed to say I don't really use them anymore, I use digital cameras. But they're, they're a little Museum, that's fine.
Christina Bradley 17:55
But they have a purpose don't make any page. Yeah. But
Marc Silber 17:59
you know, if they don't serve a purpose, if they didn't move them out of the space, keep your space functional, because otherwise, you're going to just jam up your creativity. So that's that's example of editing. He
Christina Bradley 18:13
really and you really believe that mark, that there is a correlation between the kind of let's just say the clutter in your space versus the clutter in your head, that then impacts your ability to connect to your creativity.
Marc Silber 18:25
There's there's a definite correlation. You know, it's it's funny, but I happen to believe that a person's outward form really is a mirror what's going on in here? It's not always you can't lay 100% on that, because there are those people who are very good at putting an outward facade. It really doesn't tell the true story. Those are people have a hidden, you know, agenda and that sort of thing. But usually you can perceive that too. But I think for an artist and a creative look. Your first place that you're going to show your creativity is in your is in your own space. Again, whether it's a kitchen, if you go in you open the drawer, and it's all just a big mess. You're not going to be very workable. Yeah, I learned something I you know, you talked about Zen. I studied Zen when I was a teenager. And I used to do a lot of backpacking. In fact, I taught mountaineering. But I did an exercise for myself that brought me a lot of joy, which was when I would go I went on a lot of solo backpacking trips, hundreds of miles. I don't like to do that so much. I'd rather go. Now I'd rather go with my kids or my wife or my head
Christina Bradley 19:41
and have some company Yeah,
Marc Silber 19:42
of company. But back then I was kind of a loner. But when I would set up my camp, I had this bright, beautiful bright orange tent, you know, that was very well designed. And then I would very carefully put everything in in its proper place, like Zen garden, and it was like a little exercise in how I could be creative in this environment. Of course, the, the natural environment is so beautiful. Anyway, I was trying to match that with my own stuff. And I, you know, I wouldn't just leave. First of all, you know, when you went to a camp and you left it, you had to leave. I this is the mountaineering school that I went to, you had to leave it in better shape than when you arrived. That was part of the, you know, the philosophy, which is how we should be treating our planet, by the way,
Christina Bradley 20:35
yes,
Marc Silber 20:36
very good point, another subject. But, you know, again, it's, it brings joy, and that's part of the creative process. So anyway, and then the final stage of creativity is getting your work out to the world.
Christina Bradley 20:52
shattering.
Marc Silber 20:54
And it's really, like I wrote in the book, How I hit a point in my life, where we were talking about this earlier, I had a very successful management consulting company in Silicon Valley. And I was teaching people and that was good, and I was helping them with their businesses, but it didn't really have a creative component for me. And there was a lot of stuff that I had done with photography and writing that was not out to the world. And I know what it's like to have it all sort of collected in your own universe, as it were. And what it feels like to put it out to the world is very different. Yeah, you get feedback from others, you engage them now. Now that thing really starts to, you know, have some legs to it, and it really starts to go somewhere. And I think a lot of creatives get frustrated because they don't put it out to the world, or you just put it out on like social media, which is and why fast food.
Christina Bradley 22:00
That's a really good way of putting it it is that it kind of gives you that instant gratification, but it's probably not that good for your health. Why do you think people struggle? I mean, this doesn't apply to everybody, because somebody, some people are very good at sharing their work. But do you think it's fear that stops people from really putting themselves out there and sharing?
Marc Silber 22:22
I do, I think that's one big factor. It's like stage fright. You know, why don't why do some people are really willing to get on a street corner or go to Hyde Park, you know, give a lecture or whatever it is. and others are terrified of that, you know? Well, it does take, listen, there's, there's another side of this. And when you put your warehouse the world, you don't know what's going to come back. I mean, there's trolls out there. I wrote about this in the book, there's trolls, there's negative people, you have to know how to deal with it. If you if you let it get to you, and it gets to me.
Christina Bradley 22:57
I don't quite always, of course, because we're human rights, and we don't want to hear bad things about us. So
Marc Silber 23:01
it's no good to scrape that stuff off. I don't, you know, I'm not super thick skinned and, you know, but those are a tiny percentage. If you've done a good job, that should be a small percentage of your what what comes back. And you know, the other thing is, it's just one of these things where you just have to it's like diving into a cold pool. You got to just do it. Yes, well,
Christina Bradley 23:26
see what exactly see what happened. And maybe not take yourself to all your work too seriously in the first place.
Marc Silber 23:32
You know, good point.
Christina Bradley 23:33
Just throw that out there, see what happens, play experiment and begin the process again.
Marc Silber 23:38
You know, I've been on a little recently I did an interview with Peter Asher, who he's It's amazing. His Paul McCartney lived in his parents house for two years at the beginning of the Beatles. His sister Jane Asher was Paul McCartney, his girlfriend. And Peter later became the head of a&r at Apple Records. Unbelievable depth of understanding about the Beatles. And I probed his I would love to one day do an interview with Paul McCartney, but it's as close as I could get was to talk to him. And I really wanted a pro. How come the Beatles were so creative? What was the secret sauce? Yeah. And what was it that drove them on this? And he actually had some good answers. I have an interview of this. But one of the things we got into talking about was getting rid of the stigma on failure. You know, so what if you fail, you know, it's, it's, it really isn't. So it's part of the process of learning. Get get over it and just get back on your feet. And go at it again. Yeah. Yeah. It's the other thing you know, just be okay. You write a blog post, nobody reads it or comments on it. Okay, let's
Christina Bradley 25:02
keep going.
Marc Silber 25:03
That's right another way. You know, it's it's just the way it is, you know, I put out YouTube videos and some get a tremendous amount of traction and some that I love dearly I'm in love with hardly get any animal. I don't know what, what what to say about that. But yeah.
Christina Bradley 25:22
And it's just part of it is just part of the process. And I think once you start to see it like that, and as you say, take that sort of stigma away from it and just accept that, you know, you can't have anything else unless you have that as well to a degree, then you sort of need to change your whole mindset around it. I
Marc Silber 25:38
think. I learned to learning how to ski or snowboard. You know, one of the things you absolutely know how to fall. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know how to fall in, you're afraid of it. You're gonna fall you get so stiff, and rigid that that's how you ended up falling so
Christina Bradley 25:55
and you're never going to become a better skier surfer snowboarder that you just not if you if you don't master falling and
Marc Silber 26:03
get uncomfortable with it or following the fear of falling.
Christina Bradley 26:06
Yeah, that's a good title. So so that's the process. Yeah, get to share and we are brave. We put our work out there. And then the cycle begins all over again. It just keeps going.
Marc Silber 26:18
It's a star action staircase, think of it not as a circle. Yes, you go back to your next visualisation, which is a little higher. Because when you share your work, for instance, you get feedback. And you go Oh, I see how they're perceiving it. Right? Hmm. Again, with the Beatles, let's go look at how their career started out with very simple songs. they first started singing other people's songs, but then their original songs like I want to hold your hand very simple message of love. And a very simple song. And I think they saw Whoa, whoa, we're getting all this traction on this, whether they stopped and did that. But you can't help but notice, wow, all this resonance we're getting here. Yeah, let me do some more. Yeah. What was amazing about them was they just kept reinventing themselves. They didn't stick anywhere. Now,
Christina Bradley 27:11
that's I guess that's also sort of incorporating that feedback, isn't it incorporating what you're receiving from your fans from your audience? and building that in and growing and evolving as an artist?
Marc Silber 27:22
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where sharing does lead back to your next vision you go. And that's what happened. me. I wrote a couple of books on photography. And I thought, you know, I really want to talk about a much to me more core point, which is creativity.
Christina Bradley 27:37
Yeah. Which underlines, everything
Marc Silber 27:40
underlies whatever, you know, camera is just one tool and you can use it for anything. And I do have my hands in a number of different creative areas. So as I thought it was fascinating to see that it did work, no matter what you're talking about.
Christina Bradley 27:53
Yeah, I love that. I love that, that it can be applied to anything. And so just on visualisations, we've kind of come full circle, we've come back that what are some techniques or tools that you would suggest to help people really strengthen their visualisation muscle?
Marc Silber 28:07
You know, that is a really important point. I talked about this quite a bit. So the most important thing I think, is feeding your creativity feeding your vision by looking at other artists. It's not just looking, it's reading. It's watching a film. When we can go to museums or your museums open like this is the Tate Modern.
Christina Bradley 28:29
I mean, we all are locked down.
Marc Silber 28:32
Anyway, I was miserable. I've been to the Tate you notice like you get it. You went to the loo you get viewable. You get Yeah, it feeds your
Christina Bradley 28:41
creativity. Yeah,
28:42
yeah. So you can't you can't do that. Look at books.
Christina Bradley 28:48
Well, I love I love was it you that said in the book? Or was it one of your creative conversations and someone you interviewed about how books are so fantastic, because they actually it means that you have to engage your own imagination, because there are no pictures and so you really have to exercise your imagination muscle, which I just think is I haven't looked at that way. And I think that there's so much value in that
Marc Silber 29:11
the other reader of a book, you know, you you you build those characters in your mind, which is why I never want to watch a movie and then read the book. Like why if
Christina Bradley 29:22
that's a classic example the book is amazing and the film is amazing and it's a right but once you've already created different visions for those Yes, yeah, the
Marc Silber 29:30
kind of morph together but I had, you know, I had this very, very clear vision of what I thought these characters look like you thought they did a good job.
Christina Bradley 29:39
They definitely did a good job, but it is that thing where you've created something in your mind from what you've read, and then there's a sort of misalignment in a way Yeah, so
Marc Silber 29:47
but you know, the thing is, okay, so how to get your vision strengthened? Yeah, look at books. I do this constantly. You know, or read Read an author. One of my favourite books on writing, by the way is on writing by Stephen King.
Christina Bradley 30:05
Yes. Look,
Marc Silber 30:06
I'm not a fan of his genre, I don't read horror stories. His book, and this is the only book I've ever written, but that he wrote is on writing is brilliant. It's just
Christina Bradley 30:20
makes sense. It's got so much wisdom in there. Yeah, I agree.
Marc Silber 30:24
So, you know, reading those things, watching a movie that inspires you, looking at books, and look deeply. You know, the problem with social media is we're all kind of flicking through things so fast that and that's why I call it fast food. But take a book, I do this kind of ritual, you know, at sunset. We have this beautiful porch that looks out into the ocean, you know, whatever. And I sit down with with a book of art. And I have a lot of books on photography books on various artists. I have one from the museum, Modern Art in New York. That's just a collection of all these different artists, and something sparks. Now, am I going to go this is another thing I talked to Peter Asher about. Because there's a stigma on this idea of like, Oh, I don't want to copy somebody else.
Christina Bradley 31:20
Alright, he put that out. Yeah,
Marc Silber 31:22
yeah. Okay. So he, he laid that one of two ways, because he said, don't worry about it. I'm paraphrasing. You're never gonna copy them. You're never going to succeed in that mission. Yeah. And he, he used the example of the Beatles. The Beatles were inspired by the Everly Brothers. Yes, beautiful harmonies, and they kind of modelled themselves after the Everly Brothers. But do they sound like them? No, not at all. So they failed in their mission of copying the Everly Brothers, but they completely succeeded in their mission of, you know, Paul McCartney and john lennon harmonising? Yeah, totally different than the Everly Brothers. Even though they started out trying to do that they ended up somewhere else. And this is what's going to happen with your own art. Are you going to be you know, Leonardo da Vinci is an amazing illustrator, writer, sculptor, everything else? Are we ever going to copy him? No, of course not. But you get inspired i get i got inspired by Leonardo da Vinci I wrote about him in the book. Yeah. About he said, Go around with a notepad, a sketchpad and look at people and sketch them. This is before we had iPhones to take pictures, but sketch them and look at them in any and every emotion, don't shy away from because they're angry, or they're upset. Really look. And that's how he was able to create, you know, the Last Supper. He already had those images in his mind of what people look like in those different emotions.
Christina Bradley 33:05
So it's really sort of through increasing your awareness and attention to detail, isn't it and and I guess becoming more objective about things rather than just sort of numb to your environment is actually tuning into your environment. And, and looking at it as a sort of a resource for your creativity almost.
Marc Silber 33:21
That is right there. Christina is probably this the secret of the secrets is really look at your environment. And I don't and again, you can let your creativity I wrote a thing about 24 seven creativity, creativity machine, creativity machine, you're writing on the tube. You're waiting for a doctor, you're in line at the grocery store. Those are boring times. Right. But you could turn it into a creativity time. Yeah, by what do these people look like around here?
Christina Bradley 33:54
getting curious and seeing what you can see and how you can look at it differently.
Marc Silber 33:59
Yeah, yeah. And I even wrote about Keith Richards came up with a riff for satisfaction.
Christina Bradley 34:06
Yes. Can you can you actually share that because that's such a cool, I didn't know that. And it's so cool.
Marc Silber 34:13
So he would, he'd get these thoughts and as you know, at night, and he ended up putting a tape recorder next to his bed stand on his bed, Stan. So he woke up he had the day. I don't know if he had the lyrics. I don't remember. But I know he had that riff in his head.
Christina Bradley 34:35
And I think the lyrics might come later.
Marc Silber 34:37
I think the lyrics came later. And I believe he got out of guitar and actually played the riff. And then the rest of the tape is just him snoring. went back to sleep. But he woke up the next day. And it was Whoa, where did that come from? Yeah. Paul McCartney had that happen to and again, Peter Asher mentioned This yesterday came to him in a dream. And he was so sure that he will it was somebody else's song that he went around and asked a number of people who wrote this. Can you imagine that? You're Paul McCartney? Where do these words come from? Yeah,
Christina Bradley 35:21
that's often what the creative process feels like, doesn't it when, when you're really in a state of flow, and you're so in the zone, and then you kind of pop out the other side, and you see what you've created, or what you've written, how you like, maybe after a bit of distance as you from it, but you go back to it, and you're like, wow, like I, I can't really remember writing that, or I didn't know that I had it in me to write that. And it's a really lovely feeling of sort of like, oh, there was something bigger than me in collaboration with me at that moment.
Marc Silber 35:46
You reminded me of that when we were talking beforehand, you know, because I haven't gone back and read my own book. And sometimes I Oh, yeah, that's right, I did that I just kind of a pleasant surprise. But yes, you can, you can be tuned into creativity at any moment. And that, in itself is an uplifting part of the game, it's a way to make your life feel better, and be better,
Christina Bradley 36:12
and make your whole life more creative. You know, just in that simple act, you are injecting creativity in your life. So I think for anybody listening, who is just, that's all they want, is to have a bit more creativity in their sort of daily doings. I mean, that's a great way of being able to sort of tap into it very, very easily, exactly. like to just move the conversation on to talk about some of the barriers around creating a more creative life, because I think that has given a really, really great picture of how we can actually begin to nourish our creativity and really engage with it. But what about some of the barriers and the blocks that are really holding us back from using all creativity and some of the excuses that we make? I wonder if we can touch on that?
Marc Silber 36:53
Absolutely. I think the number one excuses I don't have time. I wrote a whole chapter about it. Because I I know that that's true for me. And I know that's true. For others. So I thought
Christina Bradley 37:09
it's almost like it's such a legitimate excuse, it almost feels real.
Marc Silber 37:11
Look, yeah, I've got a job. I've got a family and I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have you know, there's spending a lot of energy convincing you. Okay. So I thought I'd just pull that veil back and go, Wait a minute, I bet you do have time. So I wrote a whole chapter on that in the book, How to Make time. The thing is, that's the secret right there. It's not having time. It's making time. And those things that we really do feel are vital and important. We're going to make time for Yeah, and you make time to eat, you make time to do household chores, you know, maybe we don't think it's the most pleasant thing. But we make time for it. We make time to work, we make time to see our family. Creativity has to be one of those things, you enter into the equation. Yeah. And I took it apart mathematically in the book, and I give people a way to do that. Not that I really don't expect anybody to follow that, you know, to the tee. But I I wanted to just
Christina Bradley 38:20
revise the reality check is what it is actually.
Marc Silber 38:23
It's a reality check. And and there's a lot of time leftover. Because we, we I believe as a culture, unfortunately wastes a lot of time looking at screens, whether they're a little screens or big screens or big time waster. You know, how much of that is really going to benefit you. I bet you could strip away a lot of it right there, you know?
Christina Bradley 38:48
Yeah. Well, I love what you talk about as well, when you when you sort of say, you know, is it an investment of your time, you know, when you sort of spend an evening watching Netflix, and it's just like, well, that's great. That's however many hours I'm not getting back. And I haven't really like, what what's the return on investment for that?
Marc Silber 39:05
What's the return on investment?
Christina Bradley 39:07
Yeah. Whereas if you put that into your creative projects, it would be significant.
Marc Silber 39:13
Yeah. And there's a way to do that, you know, there's a way to spend an evening watching Netflix, that isn't a waste of time. I mean, if you are, for instance, you know, trying to develop your sense of how to write a screenplay or, or make a film. That's a huge part of it is becoming familiar with filmmaking by watching others films. So you could be you know, using that time. Well, for instance, Alfred Hitchcock is to me just an unbelievable filmmaker. You know, so when I watch one of his films, yes, I'm being entertained, but I'm really looking at a lot of other things I'm looking at where he placed the camera and the flow of the script. And, you know, another interesting thing, by the way, I learned from Aaron Sorkin I took his masterclass incredible script writer screenwriter, he did the West Wing. He wrote a few good men, which is one of my favourite movies. But he said, and this is how to not have it be a waste of time, he said, you can download the script for almost every movie. And if you have it open, while you're watching the movie, you're going to learn a lot about how it went from us a bunch of words on a page and got turned into what you see. Now that's an that's a clever way to take this apparent waste of time and turn it into a creative process.
Christina Bradley 40:41
Yeah, it's kind of it's that transition, isn't it from being sort of passive? And on the outside to being active? And on the inside of that way? Or Really? Yeah. awake to it.
Marc Silber 40:52
Yeah. And that's a that's a visualisation process. So you're my you know,
Christina Bradley 40:57
it comes back.
Marc Silber 40:58
You really, you really, you know, it's, it's about being present. Being mindful. And just taking in what's really going on Not, not blurring out and going. Yeah, yeah,
Christina Bradley 41:13
does nothing.
Marc Silber 41:15
I talked about that in the book, too. It's just like, there's a big wake up process. You know, I've our modern society, I think hypnotises us. It does great, right? You know, we just follow along to hold it over to do to do to do today. And we got to be creative. That doesn't work. You gotta
Christina Bradley 41:33
you gotta wake up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think you mentioned this in the book as well. But and a lot of people that you have conversations with also say how everybody sort of going through their lives, not necessarily living a happy life or feeling fulfilled by their life, but that they're doing it anyway, and almost not questioning it, which when you think about it, it's kind of peculiar, but it's almost like people don't realise that they
Marc Silber 41:56
can actually make a different set of rules for themselves, and they can kind of create something that is not what society sort of says we have to have. True. And you think of some of the most notable creatives of all time, they essentially created their own universe. Yeah. In any genre. They create, they created their own characters. Again, going back to the Peter Asher interview, he was saying, like Eleanor Rigby, it's a whole created story. These guys, you know, they create, I think Paul actually wrote that song, but he created all these characters and what they're doing and then it's a created universe. Yeah. Walt Disney Disneyland, I mean, classic example of an entire universe being created that didn't have anything to do with what was, it was Walt Disney's universe, Steve Jobs created a universe? Yeah, I
Christina Bradley 42:54
was thinking about him. Yeah.
Marc Silber 42:56
So we can all do that we should all this goes back to even your space. Consider that your universe This is like, not it. No one else has any right to dabble with my universe here. You know, don't touch any stuff. This is my space. This is where I do my work. But you can do that mentally and spiritually. And you asked me, we might as well get into it, because I'm thinking about it, you know, how you can edit your life? Yes. Which is an interesting concept. And there's more to it that I didn't put in the book, because it's a whole vast subject. But, you know, we ultimately can decide where we want to put our energy. And it's a truism that what you put your energy on is what ends up happening. And if you put your energy on a lot of negative things, you have a negative life. If you put your energy and I'm not trying to be, you know, pollyannish, you know, Mary Poppins. But the truth is, we can decide where we, you know, want to dwell,
Christina Bradley 44:05
we do that is our choice.
Marc Silber 44:07
Yeah, it's our choice. And you know, my wife and I will do it, you know, sometimes stuff happens, and you do kind of get caught up in it, but at some point, you got to go, okay, we've indulged in that long enough. Let's get off that topic. Let's go on to something positive. Yeah, you know, there was a movement in the 1800s called the New Thought movement. And I'm gonna dive into this a little bit more, I just was kind of reminded of it today, the new thought movement believed that you could be the thinker of the new thought. All thought, evil, corruption, you know, dwelling on, you know, sinful people were, you know, very heavy negativity. The new thought was more like let's, let's, let's be more optimistic, and let's think about being like creative and using our talents and that sort of thing. And even if an artist is creating a very heavy way, let's say you're still creating, you're still putting life into something that you want. And it's always, it's always interesting to see and to study artists who really did make it. And that's why I interviewed these 12 people in the book, because I wanted to talk to people who really had done it, you know, yeah, they're regular people just like everybody else. They didn't have some magic DNA, you know, which is
Christina Bradley 45:33
when I think that's why their stories and those conversations are so inspiring, because you can see, you can see how they, you know, they had that vision, and then they worked through to make that a reality.
Marc Silber 45:45
So true. Yeah. One of the creators I interviewed His name is Chris McCaskill. I thought his story was fascinating. him I mean, he was, he was the one that grew up homeless.
Christina Bradley 45:57
Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
Marc Silber 45:58
Amazing rates of Oakland, under living under a bridge with a mom who was schizophrenic, I believe was a phrenic. Yeah. And then he ended up being kind of rescued from that went to high school, and everything
Christina Bradley 46:14
to completely opposite. Yeah,
Marc Silber 46:17
everything was new, like, the idea that you could get on a bus and go skiing, what he'd been living under a bridge. He went on a Master's at Stanford, I mean, serial entrepreneur. And he said, Every day, every day, he realises how thankful he is because he's, he knows how bad it can be. Yeah. So that was just one of the stories I thought was, wow, that's incredible.
Christina Bradley 46:46
So So to your point about sort of extending the Edit, editing and refining process to your life, sort of editing, that negative thoughts, is, is also a kind of an essential part of the creative approaches. Yeah.
Marc Silber 47:02
And create creativity is an antidote for negativity as well. You asked about remedies and how to be more creative. Well, one simple way is to go take a walk every day, I have a whole chapter about it.
Christina Bradley 47:16
I'm so pleased that you brought this up, because this was the final thing that I've just wanted to make sure we squeezed in there, because so I have a dog and I walk every day, but it's amazing to me how it shifts my mindset, how many ideas come into my head? And yeah, I love it. And I was so happy to see a whole chapter in there about it. So yeah, please, elaborate on that.
Marc Silber 47:37
Yeah, and the most, I think the most telling thing is there was a study done at Stanford in 2014, where they found they put people into, you know, sitting mode in front of a computer or whatever. And they took a group of them, and they took them out to go for a walk, and then come back, and they found out their creativity actually increased by 60%. Just from taking a walk 60% Come on,
Christina Bradley 48:03
oh, my God, that's amazing.
Marc Silber 48:05
You know, and it worked really, really works. And we're always look, we're sitting in front of computers, that's kind of what modern life is for most creatives. I mean, if you're a sculptor, you're maybe not so much. But writers, photographers, filmmakers, we spent a lot of time in front of computers. And that in itself can get you really tired out. So one trick, by the way, is just get up periodically, at least every hour, get up, get off the screen, walk around, refresh your mind. But for sure, take a long walk every day, anywhere from you know, there's a five minute walk isn't gonna do it. You got to put like, it'll minimum for me is 20 minutes. I prefer an hour, you know. And like you said, refresh your mind with your dog is great. Don't Look, don't go on a walk like this, though. Huh? You know what
Christina Bradley 49:04
my problem is? And it was interesting when I was reading what you were saying, because I do have my phone with me. But I use it to sort of send myself voice notes. So I capture because I'm walking everything that I'm thinking I kind of make these voice memos. That's okay. Yeah. But then that can also be a bad habit. You have to be a bit careful
Marc Silber 49:23
with that. I think it's better not to do that. I think it's better just let it all go. And then I'm another one of the other tools I use constantly is I'm on a notebook guy. Yeah, me too. You get back from your walk, write down your your epiphany is whatever it is.
Christina Bradley 49:40
Yeah, I might try that. Actually, I might try just to not, because that also feels a bit scary for me because it's like, oh, no, but what if something comes up and I'm not? I don't have any way of capturing it.
Marc Silber 49:50
Yeah, you can. You can write it down. The other thing is it just ties you back in you as soon as you dive into that. Oh, I have a text. Oh, I need to call this guy back. Yeah, you know, I use I, you know, look, I'm a photographer. So obviously, I've got my camera and shooting photos and videos and whatnot, I allow myself to do that. But a reset every day with a good long walk is is a very, very therapeutic action in terms of resetting your creativity
Christina Bradley 50:21
and elevating it as well, I
Marc Silber 50:22
think tolerating it clear from that tool. And there's a lot of tools and again, the book I wrote, from the viewpoint, I want to give tools for use. By the way, at the end of every chapter, I have creative exercises, because I know it's not just a mental process, you have to put this stuff into action. You know, really look, anything you don't put into action, where does it go? It just kind of gets kicked back somewhere, right? But as soon as you say, okay, like, I'm gonna do an exercise programme, what good does it do to read a book, and then put the book away and not do the exercises? Right. Now, I don't think I could survey this. But I think most people who read the book, don't stop and do all those exercises. However, they know they're there. And I've had a number of readers Tell me, I'm going back again. Now mark to those.
Christina Bradley 51:20
Yeah, so
51:21
I don't care. You can read through the whole book. But at some point, it's a good idea to go back and absolutely and do the exercises. Mike, this
Christina Bradley 51:30
has been such a one I could talk to you all day. Honestly, I just love this so much. But I'm conscious of time. So I would like to ask you one final question before we wrap things up, which is, what does living a creative life mean to you?
Marc Silber 51:45
You mentioned that before, you know, Christina, it means to me that you are you know, the better part of your life, let's say over 50% has some kind of creative component to it. I don't know you're ever going to get to 100% some amazing artists like Pablo Picasso seems to be he got up there at a very high percentage. Again, the Beatles high percentage, but we also know enough about these people to know that it wasn't perfect. You know, there's Okay, so let's just say a high percentage. And you strive for that, you strive for that you again, whether you're cooking a meal, or, you know, I gave the example of watching a Netflix, but maybe you have the script out, and you're using that as an opportunity to learn. So the better part of your life is devoted to something creative, the better part, and nobody has to jump off and quit their day job and everything and do is do a whole drastic thing. Take that same mindset to your day job. Like what can I learn from people here that I could use? Quit and turn Tara Tarantino worked at a blockbuster movie,
Christina Bradley 53:06
right?
Marc Silber 53:08
And it was a boring job. I guess it was, I don't know. And he watched movies, just constantly. That's how he that was his filmmaking career. He didn't go I don't believe he went to film school. I just watched a lot of
Christina Bradley 53:19
movies that right. That's incredible.
Marc Silber 53:22
So he took this boring day job where other people could have just been, you know, hacking away on
Christina Bradley 53:30
the nation's Yeah.
Marc Silber 53:32
He he watched, you know, movies all day long. So that was his educational process. So that's really what it means is just try to put creativity into your life. It comes from you, it's not going to fly in the window. Don't look for anybody else to bring it to you put it in to your life. And when you do that, it's yours. That simple.
Christina Bradley 53:56
Thank you, Mark. Thank you so much. My pleasure. If people want to hang out with you on Instagram, if they want to find you, how can they obviously the book I'll put a link to create which I thoroughly recommend to anybody listening. It's such such a brilliant book. I will put a link to that in the show notes. But if people actually want to get in contact with you or follow you, how do they go about doing that?
Marc Silber 54:18
If you remember how to spell my name, you can find me anywhere. So it's m AR C, not America. Silver, sounds like silver, but it's si l Br. So you can find me on Instagram at Mark silver. You can find me on youtube Mark silver. You can pretty much find me anywhere just by knowing my name on Amazon. My website and we'll I'll give you links as well.
Christina Bradley 54:45
Brilliant and we'll put
Marc Silber 54:46
creative community as well. Where I teach photography, I teach creativity so you can find out about those classes and and I have a whole membership programme. Ram as well.
Christina Bradley 55:01
Amazing so people can connect with you. Well, like I said, we'll put all of that in the notes, so that everybody has got that at their fingertips. Mike, thank you. Again, this has been a wonderful conversation and I feel like I have just got so much out of the book, but also from talking to you today. My pleasure.
Marc Silber 55:17
Thanks for having me.