Christina Bradley 0:00
Kate Hello. Welcome to the creativity campus podcast. It's so great to have you here.
Kate Davis 0:05
Thank you so much. Hello, I'm so pleased to be here be so excited to talk to you.
Christina Bradley 0:09
I know. And now finally we're doing it. So as everybody will know from the introduction, you are a creative mindset coach.
Kate Davis 0:16
Yes, I am.
Christina Bradley 0:18
Which is a great title. And one of the first questions I actually asked you the other day, can you talk to me about what a creative mindset coach actually is? What do you do exactly? What does that job title mean?
Kate Davis 0:30
Yes, it's a really good question. Because when I came up with it, it was the only way I could actually put all the things I do together in one in in one phrase, but at the same time, it also begs more questions. So I am a, I'm a business mentor. I'm a creative strategist. But I'm also a performance mindset coach. So for me, at the heart of everything I do is this process of creative thinking. And it's, it's that it's the beginning process of the creative thinking, that will actually end up with you shifting mindsets with you, with you being able to take the next step up to being able to get out of your way to be able to be able to live that one big juicy life that you really want to live. But when I talk to people, and I say I'm the creative mindset coach, everyone says, Oh, well, not everyone, but but a lot of people will say, Oh, well, I'm not creative. And then I have to explain to them about what, how I feel about creativity and creative thought. And all of a sudden, you see their faces light up. Oh, I get that. I'm definitely that. And so that that word creative is such an important part of what I do. but can also be quite divisive, which I always find really fascinating.
Christina Bradley 1:57
So yes, and it is. And that's really why I wanted to talk to you today. Because I think, you know, we, we work with people who don't necessarily feel creative at their heart, they have maybe a creative instinct, and they feel like they'd like to explore it, but they don't necessarily feel confident, confident enough to own their own creativity. So I think it is divisive. And it's a fascinating area to explore.
Kate Davis 2:24
Yeah,
Christina Bradley 2:24
Do you work with both ends of the spectrum, people who don't feel creative, but are looking to you to help them with that, as well as people who are already engaged in creative pursuits as a professional career
Kate Davis 2:38
Very much so. And where, where I think I sort of tried to bring the balance is, so when I work with people who are who identify as creative if we could put it that way, who are, as you say, employed in some sort of creative vocation, being being writers or photographers or copywriters, whether you know, however, however they create their, their however they create their art, whatever that might be. Often in those circumstances, people are those people have difficulty with meeting their creative art with with business life.
Christina Bradley 3:25
Mm hmm.
Kate Davis 3:27
On the other side of that coin, when I speak to people, and so I'm not creative, some of the most creative people I know would wouldn't ever think of themselves as creative. I think so much of that has to do with labels. When, when I was growing up, I wasn't the creative one. My sister was the creative one, I was the academic one my brother was that was the hard worker, which of course, is complete nonsense, because all three of us are very creative. My brother's actually a great painter, not that he does, it does it very much anymore. We're all fairly academic, we're all work really hard. But those labels stick with you. And I know for that, from my own point of view, that I being the academic meant that I didn't feel like I could really own the creative part of me. And so, and you and I have had this conversation before, you know, we both worked in the event world, but I worked in event logistics, so I was surrounded by creative people, but I was doing the spreadsheets and the sensible stuff and the you know, the the really regimented part. And, and would look at the creatives like some sort of mythical being right. The creatives are coming in today.
Christina Bradley 4:45
The gifted ones. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Davis 4:49
And I think that's where it's it's that feeling of of not you know, all I'm not creative and that creativity is like a, like a magic art. I think that people who don't identify as creative who would say, Oh, no, no, that's that's not me. I'm not. They're not attaching to that huge, huge piece of themselves. In the same way that those who do identify, I'm not, I'm not somehow attaching to the other half of themselves either.
Christina Bradley 5:21
And that's interesting. Make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. And that's really interesting, I think is well, people. You know, I wonder why that happens. And I think you're absolutely right, is a huge part of it is these labels that we put on ourselves, you know, as a way of quickly identifying who we are, and certainly with creative people, you know, we, we like to put that label on, you know, they look creative, they have a creative job. And, you know, they are a legitimate creative person, and therefore, in some ways, have the monopoly over creativity. And I think, because that that's so validated as a creative person, I think we, people who don't feel so creative and have sort of detached themselves, as you say, from their creativity, they look at that level of creativity, and don't think that they can achieve the same results. And so they don't feel you know, they're looking at somebody else's outcome and thinking, Oh, well, they are really creative and look at what they can create. And I could never do that. And I think that that becomes more evidence that makes them kind of step away from their own creative self, because they think, well, I could never create that. And I think there's a sense of kind of being intimidated by it, you know, perhaps some fear in there as well, of not being able to express yourself creatively, because you're so worried about not living up to this invisible standard that exists.
Kate Davis 6:44
Yes, very much. So I think, from for me, as I say this, for me, when when I realised quite how important creativity was in my own life, and also in my own in a personality and in my own personal development, was really attaching to the this idea of creative thought. Because for me, all creativity stems from from that creative thought process. And the photograph that you take, or the book that you write, or the the piece of art that you create on a massive canvas. However, however, that shows up is one, one or many different possible outcomes of that creative thought process. And that, and creativity for me is not is not just the arty bit, for want of a better word. It's very much about being curious, being willing to experiment, being able to try being willing to try something new, not always following the rulebook. questioning, looking, being forward being future focused thinking, is this the best way to do this? So as a project manager, I think there was huge creativity in project management, for example, will they most project managers wouldn't wouldn't think of themselves as creative to be able to look at a situation and try to work out. Or, you know, what do we need to fix? How do we need to fix it? What can we do to make this even if it's processes, something that that sounds to a creative person is like, don't make me do a spreadsheet. Even if it's something like that there was huge creativity in the thought process. And again, that, you know, that Visio diagram or that whatever it is, is another potential outcome of that creative process. But without that, that curiosity, that inquisitive nature, that imaginative way of thinking of new things, none of those things would happen.
Christina Bradley 8:55
Yeah. So it all really does start with the sort of being creative, adopting a creative mindset which in theory from how you've just described it, you can argue that that is accessible to absolutely anyone and that is not just reserved for a gifted few.
Kate Davis 9:16
Totally agree with you.Yes. We all have it in us. And when we are most able to, to really lean into that is when I think we we get the most, we are the most productive, when we are most in flow. When you are actually able to let your brain wander and do its thing and be able to, to create is when you when when you are most when you're most alive, let's let's just put it that way is when you're most alive.
Christina Bradley 9:56
And you're when you're you know most full of joy, I think as well.
Kate Davis 10:00
Yes, completely.
Christina Bradley 10:01
But it's interesting what we're talking about right now, it is very much the the process and not the outcome. And I think sometimes with creativity, the mistake is made that everything is based and judged by the outcome and the product, whether that be a piece of art or a book, or whatever the sort of creative manifestation is at the end, that's what we judge creativity by, but actually, what we're saying is, it's not that it's much more about the thought process that gets you to that end result. And in some ways, the end result is somewhat insignificant, it's about the thinking around it. Is that is that what we're sort of saying?
Kate Davis 10:38
Yes, yes, I think I think that's absolutely right, actually. And I think, if you can, if you can shift the focus onto that. I think that also helps with with the potential outcome.
Christina Bradley 10:51
I agree, yeah.
Kate Davis 10:52
Because also when you when you are creating something, whether that is, you know, bunny ears 'Arty' or not, there is, there is so much of you in that process, there is so much of you in that outcome. You and I talked about this the other day, you know, that when when you have created something, you are literally sort of holding this out to the universe and saying, look, look, here's a piece of me, like me, please like it. But the beautiful thing I've made, and that's terrifying. Yeah, absolutely terrifying as a process. And as a thing to have to do. And I think that's, again, where helping people who do identify as creative who do have a creative job. I think that really helps them to really understand that actually, what they end up with isn't necessarily the be all and end all, it's the process that they went went on. To be able to sort of to recreate that or to develop and, and move on as well. And also to be able to hand that over without that massive kind of heart, in your heart in your mouth. God, please like me idea.
Christina Bradley 12:13
So that's really fascinating. And I think it's, it's this whole idea, isn't it of of outcome versus the creative process. And getting too attached to the outcome has the ability to actually destroy the whole lovely, juicy, joyful, creative process of getting there. And the other thing that that made me think about was, actually, when you get to the end of you know, this whole creative work, and you put something out into the world, that's really marking the sort of the end of the creative process, because it's no longer yours, and you're handing it over. And that piece of creativity is done. And it's over to the critics. And, and you have to let go of it anyway, which, for me, is even more reason to find ways of actually enjoying the process of creativity, rather than just being fixated on how well that product or, you know, piece of art or writing or book will actually do. But it's how much you got out of the experience of doing it for me that that really is the sort of, well, there's the thing that I like to focus on when I'm on doing a creative project is, is you always think about the end result, and you always want it to be great and, you know, have big ideas. And I think that's great to be ambitious and to have hope. But equally, I think when that starts to undermine the actual creative process, I think it hinders what you're capable of creating.
Kate Davis 13:35
Yes, I absolutely agree with you, because you can be almost sort of paralysed by fear of, you know, putting the putting the brush on the wrong part of the canvas. As one example, and actually what happens if that happens? Well, actually, if your creative process, if this is just the end part of that creative process, then that's not the end of the world, and you're still in that creative process. And that becomes something else and could be far more beautiful. But I think it also helps enormously with as you using your words when you put it out to the critics, because when you put anything out there, whether it's a piece of creative art or when you put anything out in the universe, someone's going to have a have something to say about it. Positive or negative. You know, even if that is simply a Facebook post, someone's going to say something negative on it, whatever it might be. And I think if you if your heart is in the creative thinking and your heart is in the creative process, rather than the outcome. It's much easier for you to say yeah, here you go, have to have the worst, go on. But also to recognise that actually, by having somebody who is negatively critiquing it means that you have elicited a reaction of some of some kind.
Christina Bradley 15:09
Yes.
Kate Davis 15:09
And again, it also, isn't that the point?
Christina Bradley 15:12
Yeah.
Kate Davis 15:18
So your mind will be so much stronger as a result, and so much more able to cope with that, with that with those comments. And with that commentary, whether that's positive or negative, because your heart and soul isn't in just just that very last part of the process, it's in the whole.
Christina Bradley 15:37
Yeah, and because you've got something out of the entire journey, that potentially means means more than just, you know, the negative, the negative reviews. And it was also interesting what you were saying as well about, you know, there's less pressure on yourself, when you're less wedded to the outcomes, and really can just sink into the experience and the journey and the creative process, you know, and you do something that you think, Oh, Gosh, that wasn't actually what I wanted to do and I, I've made a mistake, but actually, with the creative mindset that that we're talking about, and you use the word experiment before. And I think that's so important. If you approach your creative work as an experiment, there is no right or wrong, you know, and therefore, talking of critics, I think the worst critic often is ourselves, specially when it comes to our creativity, things that make us feel, you know, that we care most about and make us feel most exposed and vulnerable, is when we tend to beat ourselves up the most. And so I think, actually, this idea of treating it more as an experiment with no right or wrong, just a process of discovery and experimentation, I think actually, sort of dumbs down this idea of, you know, right or wrong, and therefore good or bad. And therefore, I'm going to give myself a good punch in the head for not actually doing this as well as I could have done. And, and that's an interesting way of looking at it. Well, I think,
Kate Davis 17:01
Yes, I completely agree with you. I think, I think the other thing, which we talk a lot, I talk a lot in terms of mindset about your your limiting beliefs, your mind monkeys, and the things that you that hold you back and they can a sweeping generalisation coming in listen for it now. I think the creative people struggle more with them with their mind monkeys, than than those who have a mark, much more sort of logistical, left brain. I've got other way around logistical left brain and yes, rather than the creative brains
Christina Bradley 17:42
I think you've got that the right way around. And I would agree with that. I would agree with that but why do you think that is?
Kate Davis 17:50
I think because we're thinking about it, because we are more willing to experiment because we are more willing to bend the rules a little bit. And every time that you're trying to do that every time that you're trying to, to bend the rules or push the limit or something or other, you will necessarily be having to step out of your comfort zone and out of your your zone of excellence and into your zone of genius, as Gay Hendricks would put it. And by doing that, that's a scary thing to do. Your mind monkeys will then start getting the chattering will start getting louder and louder. What do you do? What do you think you're doing? Why do you Why do you Why do you think anyone's going to listen to that? You know, that's not a piece of art. No one's going to like that. Don't put that out there. No one's going to buy that no one's going to move on. Mmm,
Christina Bradley 18:38
It's exhausting.
Kate Davis 18:39
Absolutely exhausting. And that and the level of noise gets more and more and more. But I think if we can flip that and concentrate on that experimentation and the fun of that, if you imagine those mind, monkeys have all stopped chattering and actually, you've given them all of a banana. And you've given them something to play with. And that experimentation is playing. If you imagine the chimpanzees all having a ruddy good laugh with it with a whole load of fruit and balls and tires are swinging on. That's where creativity comes in and actually, if you can, if you can focus the mind monkeys attention on the creativity, they're are a lot quieter. And you can just kind of slip one past them.
Christina Bradley 19:27
They're too busy chowing down on their bananas.
Kate Davis 19:31
Whoops, I've launched a book.
Christina Bradley 19:34
I love that. No, but I think that that's so true. And I think often, you know, thinking about play as adults is just something. I mean, I've spoken about this a number of times on the show, but it's just something that we have almost forgotten how to do. It's not even a case of not giving ourselves permission, although that's a problem too. Even if we give ourselves the permission. I think we're so disconnected from our sort of childhood and we're now so serious, you know, everything is just all in our heads that actually, we have sort of lost the ability to play. And I think that is such a big component when it comes to creativity.
Kate Davis 20:12
Yes, I completely agree with you. And it's it's a funny thing that I, I have two young kids, we're not that young anymore. But But when I was when they were very little, and I was wanting to play with them, there would be something that would be holding me back from playing with them. Because I had to be the adult I had to be the grown up. Who says adults can't play?
Christina Bradley 20:35
Yeah. Yeah.
Kate Davis 20:37
Who says adults can't play, it's ridiculous.
Christina Bradley 20:39
But it's all the messaging, isn't it about, you know, it's time to grow up? You know, don't be so silly. You've got to get serious. It's all it's all this sort of subliminal messaging that goes on as I sort of transition into adulthood, that you just have to take life so seriously. And I think sometimes in doing that, you do you kill the joy from it, and the fun and the ability to play and therefore indirectly, your ability to access your creativity, I think.
Kate Davis 21:04
Yes. I completely agree with you that. Yeah, I'm reminded of that of that film again.
Christina Bradley 21:13
I was let's talk about that film. Because I mean, I haven't watched it yet, but it's on my list.
Kate Davis 21:18
Yes. It's, it's a funny, it's a funny one. Again, it's one of those films where I was sort of forced to go and watch it, because my children wants to go and watch it and I thought, God, I really don't want to go. The Lego Movie. And I often talk about how I've gone slightly bonkers. Sorry, say it again...
Christina Bradley 21:36
The high culture sophisticated Lego Movie.
Kate Davis 21:40
Absolutely, totally The Lego Movie. And I remember going to see this and then as I say, dreading having to go to see it. And then the children were chattering about 20 minutes in I was like, sheesh, I'm listening to this. And the more I watch it, the more I get out of it. And the last time I watched it, I actually watched it with a notepad and pen and kept having to press pause, or that's another good one. And, you know, this, the plot very quickly is about this...
Christina Bradley 22:12
Are there spoilers in this Kate?
Kate Davis 22:12
No, no, no, no, no. No, exactly. Emmet is a construction worker. He's a Lego figure construction worker. And he lives a very boring, regimented life is everybody who lives in his town does, they all do the same thing, they all watch the same adverts in the morning. And, you know, you sort of go through his very regimented day. And he had, he has no place and no confidence for creativity in his life. And everybody is basically ruled by, by the sort of President Lord business, who was effectively trying to make everything very regimented, and is trying to make everybody behave to a certain stereotype to a certain way of, of living and being because it's much easier to control people, if they're all regimented, andall doing the same thing and all doing what they what they should be doing. But actually, in the process, we discovered that what we really need to do is we need to start start using our creativity, and how effectively that's going to change the world and how, you know, the effects of that on lord business. And I often think about this, when I'm when I'm thinking about people who are who I'm working with who are creative, because I can sort of see that, that sort of fear of lord business, this sort of over this domineering, very dark, kind of Darth Vader type figure, of you know, business is going to make everything regimented and boring, and it's going to crush creativity. Whereas I just don't i don't think that that has to be I think, when you get that balance between the two,
Christina Bradley 22:18
It's beautiful. Yeah,
Kate Davis 24:07
And it's also got a fantastic cast list is Will Ferrell is lord business and Morgan Freeman as a prophet. I mean, you know,
Christina Bradley 24:13
What's not to love? Yeah. on my list, it's on my list and I will be there with my notepad as well. But that's, that's interesting, what you've just said, and I'd like to explore this a bit more because I, I'm really fascinated about you do a lot of work around money mindset as well. And I'm really interested in in creatives who follow their creative path, turn it into a career and a living and make money from it. But the relationship people have between creativity and charging for it, monetizing it, and actually being able to make a living through it. Now, there's a whole demographic of people who are quite happy, you know, engaging with their creativity in a very, you know, recreational way and don't have any desire to turn it into a side hustle, but there is a huge amount of other people who would love to to actually be able to turn their creativity into a career, but don't feel like they can ever make money out of it. And I feel like there's a big mindset piece there, which you would know far more about than I would. So I'd love you to share your insights there.
Kate Davis 25:14
Absolutely the case, I find it particularly with people who either are trying to, as you say, trying to actually earn money from their, from their creative output. Or, and also people in service industries, because people who want to help people with both both groups of people, and quite often merge as well. People who are in service industries are often quite creative souls. If they have passion, about the thing that they do, and they want to be able to serve that passion, create that beautiful thing, or help somebody. How on earth could they charge for that? But also, there is also that piece that you know, we were just talking about in terms of here is something that I've created. I love it, please love it, too. How can you put a price on that? How can you put a price on something as intangible, effectively as art? You know, you often hear people saying, well, you'll never make money being an artist. Well, there are plenty of artists who made a lot of money. Oh, yes. But...
Christina Bradley 26:28
They are the exception not the rule?
Kate Davis 26:30
Yes. Well, the only reason that they are is because they haven't either they haven't let those my monkey stopped them. Or somebody has picked them up and decided to sort of catapult them because they are the next you know that the spirits dislike us or whatever it might be. And but often those people in the latter category, if they haven't done that mindset work will always feel that somehow they don't deserve this, that somehow this isn't this shouldn't be coming does somehow does this sully their art if they've asked for money for it?
Christina Bradley 27:03
Right. Because it's so sacred, and therefore we possibly attach it to, you know, a price tag to it.
Kate Davis 27:08
Exactly. But we're but we're back to that, that creative thought process. That actually where the where the gold is, is in the thought process, the piece of art that you come up with at the other end of it is, is one potential outcome. it's not the be all and end all. And being able to being able to really value, that creative thought process, really putting the value and the worth into that. Believing in yourself and how and the difference that that creative process can have on yourself on you, but also on the people that you want to impact. That's where I find the biggest change comes in people when they really genuinely recognise their own self worth, rather than the worth of a piece of paper or a photograph or whatever that might be.
Christina Bradley 28:09
I think that is such an important distinction. And even you saying that just then made me go? Oh, yeah, I get that. And I've never looked at it that way. And that's really fascinating. Because when you think of all the hours, even if you can't give value to what it is you're creating in that process, you can still attribute value to the hours you spend doing it with your worth and things. So I think from a really practical sense, sometimes it's easier to look at it like that in order to give it some value, because you think, you know what, I put 100 hours into this, what are those hundred hours worth, and that feels more somehow acceptable or easier for us to kind of quantify it in that way. Versus, you know, a subjective piece of art at the end of it, you know, with the book that I've written. People love it, people also really, really hate it. And, you know, if I were to put the value on that, and people's opinions of that, it would be a very fluctuating price tag from I'll give it away for free to, I don't know, I'm embarrassed asking five pounds for it, right. But actually, if I think oh my god, that book took me, you know, X number of years to write this much imagination, labour, this much blood, sweat and tears, suddenly, the value of that book, you know, is right up there. And that is a much easier way to look at it in a more objective way, I think which is why I like it, because it takes out all of this sort of the emotion and the personal and, you know, it's so precious to me, and I don't want to expose myself and all the messy stuff that comes with putting your work out into the world. And it just draws it back to a very simplistic, actually, this is the amount of work that I put into it, and therefore, this is what it's worth. And I love that distinction. Thank you for sharing that. I hadn't heard that before.
Kate Davis 29:57
Thank you. And I think also The other difficulty with with being involved in that creative process. And the creative outcome is also other people's perception of it. And being able to think about it in that way, makes it a lot more easy to I mean, we shouldn't have to justify the price tag that we decide to put on something, but it makes it a lot more easy to justify. How many times have you and I both heard of people sort of say it being being asked to, to create something for free, because it would be a good exposure for them, or it would be good. Like, somehow they're, what they can create is to a penny or is not, it doesn't have a value. And actually, that is the other person's mindset. That's their own money monkeys that probably saying, Oh, God, I can't afford, I can't afford a new website, or I can't afford a new set of branding photographs or whatever. But I tell you what I could do like swapsies. And somehow their own money mindset of, of I can't afford this then turns into being putting pressure on your money mindset of what maybe I shouldn't do it for free.
Christina Bradley 31:15
Maybe it is good exposure. Do you think it's also a bit of a society mindset as well. I mean, people place a lot of value on creativity, when the results have already been proven. And that person has already been proven, right, and they've become mainstream, and everybody knows about them. And essentially, they've become famous, you know, and then we know there is a huge amount of money to be made in creativity. But until that happens, I don't think society until there's sort of a mass external validation of somebody's work and creative contribution. I don't think that there is the same level of value placed in it to begin with, does that make sense? You know, I think if people haven't got that notoriety, then society says, Well, you know, you should kind of, you know, as you say, for exposure, do it for free. And, you know, and I know that from working in events, like everybody's paid, really well, clients have a lot of money, there is budget and money going around. And then you get to the poor kind of, you know, entertainment that comes in these struggling musicians. And it's like, I'll see what they'll do it for half that price. Why is that creative work? You know, they're making up songs that and they are always the people that seem to get squashed. And I think that that is sort of a societal price tag that we're putting on things where maybe creativity doesn't get as much respect until it gets the more mass sort of appreciation.
Kate Davis 32:54
Yes. I mean, if you think about in history, how many great how many of the great artists or the great composers or the great whatever, died paupers were actually only discovered after they died?
Christina Bradley 33:07
Yeah,
Kate Davis 33:09
How many, you know, how many of those people could have had they had somebody to give them that lift up? Actually, actually had the, you know, have that success themselves? It's, I mean, it's, it's a cliche. And the reason that it's a cliche is because it happens a lot.
Christina Bradley 33:28
Yeah, exactly.
Kate Davis 33:29
And for every, you know, for every songwriter, you know, for every thousand or 100,000 songwriters there are out there, You know, there's the one Ed Sheeran who's making a lot of money on the one you know, the two Lennon and McCartney so the whatever it is, because they have got that thing, then their writing has more value.
Christina Bradley 33:53
Do you think just on that, do you think that that sort of stops other people from creating because they're looking at that and it seems too unrealistic? It seems too much of a stretch and something that they could never possibly create for themselves? And therefore what's the point trying do you think that happens?
Kate Davis 34:11
Oh, it without question. And again, if there's if there's mind monkeys at work, all that looks big, or that looks scary, or like I could never possibly do. Oh, I don't think I'm that creative. And at that point every everybody you know, every teacher you've ever had, who sent something that no I like, you know, that isn't up to scratch or we have every every negative thought you've ever had about your creativity or your worth in in what you're going to put out there will come straight back in there. And that's what those monkeys will start chattering about. It's it's that question of going out of your comfort zone and trying something. And it's that's I think that's that's something that is that cyclical problem that we that we have Is that the creative process is that experimentation and that and wanting to try something new try to, like want to try something different but then to actually put something out there, you have to be willing to do all of those things. So you're sort of, you're sort of stuck in, stuck in between a rock and a hard place. And again, maybe that's one of the reasons why that's sweeping, generalisation coming back in again, but creative people struggle with their imposter syndrome with with those limiting beliefs more, because they don't have set lines to follow, they don't have set rules to follow. That's, that means that an hour of your time is worth this or you know that that product is worth this thing. If it's, you know, if it's a tangible product that you that you create, they'll you know what it is, because they'll be market forces that dictate what that yes, value is. Whereas if you're actually selling a thought...
Christina Bradley 35:58
How do you quantify that? Yeah, it's a really interesting, interesting subject. And I always come back to the way, It surprises me how much we can want something for ourselves, and yet be our own worst enemy and sabotage ourselves. You know, I just find that really staggering in every possible way, I think we just stand in our own way. And I think creativity is a really great example of that, you know, we just with, you know, as you say about the mind monkeys, that they just come out and cause all this havoc, and stop us from actually achieving the things that we want to achieve.
Kate Davis 36:34
Yes. And I think I think this is the thing that this is, this is effectively what I help people with the most is actually to be able to get themselves out of their way to be able to quiet the monkeys. Whether they, whether they identify as creative, or we don't identify as creative, to be able to allow themselves to have that play time with the chimpanzees so that they can get out their own way so that they can step up so that they can go and do the thing that they really want to do. And it, it is amazing. I talk about this an awful lot. But then, you know, you rarely rarely have those moments of clarity in anyone in any one life and only have certain moments of clarity. But that being able to trust yourself enough to trust the process to lean into the thing that you really want. And just think, sudden, what's the worst?
Christina Bradley 37:39
What's the worst that can happen? Exactly. And I wanted to touch on this because, firstly, I think, given given the nature of this conversation, everything we've been talking about and how we started with saying, you know, what is a creative mindset coach, how much need there is, in terms of developing and cultivating a creative mindset, just how important it is to get the right mindset in order to be able to go on and achieve the things that you want to I just think it's, it's actually everything in terms of creativity. And, and then the other thing that I think is really interesting, you know, we talk about creativity very much in the realms of art, and you know, what we would consider creative pursuits, I suppose. But actually, you're really helping people create their life in many respects. And I really like that idea that, you know, is the ultimate creation, isn't it? You know, create the life that you want to live. And one full of purpose is everything that we've been talking about is also transferable beyond the Create creative process, but applicable to how we actually create a life that we want, do you think is the same? All of the same things involved?
Kate Davis 38:49
Certainly from from, from my point of view, and my experiences absolutely the same thing. And I, I'm very passionate about purpose. I'm very passionate about finding finding that part of you that has been with you the whole way along. And has popped up now and again, and sort of tapped you on the shoulder that oh, you know, oh no, you're not quite ready yet. So that has that is that that is that passion. That is that drive and that gives you that clarity. And you are the only person who can have the purpose that you have. Because it is it is a we touched on this last time we spoke I'm going to use another children's children's film reference. The Disney film tangled, the story of Rapunzel she has this this beautiful glowing golden hair and when she sings it lights up. And for me purpose is like her hair is that it's all the different strands of all of the different parts of your of you The stuff that makes you you, whether that is from the positive experiences in, you know, in your childhood, or whether it's whether it's actually a reaction against something negative that has made that that has all the values set of yours. And each of those then actually bind together into this sort of beautiful, great big glowing braid of purpose. That is, that is your is your guide, that is your clarity, that is your direction. But there's also that great big comfort blanket for when you actually know you need to go and swing out the turret and jump out of your comfort zone, you still got your purpose, your purpose never leaves you. Your purpose or keep those keep those mind monkeys at bay.
Christina Bradley 40:48
That's fascinating. And so tonight, and I suppose we'll be right in saying that in your mind. Everybody has a purpose. It's just a question of finding it.
Kate Davis 40:58
Yes. It without question. And it's quite a loaded word purpose as well, because I think it can sometimes feel very worthy. Oh, yes, it's purpose driven. And sometimes it can feel quite fluffy. And well, that's great. But what what, you know, I found what my purpose is. But what's that got to do with anything. And it's, it's also overused as well. So we talk about what my purpose is my purpose in setting my businesses, business soccer, so that I can earn some money, but I can still be at home in time for the children. Yeah, that's not your purpose. That's the way you're the way you've decided to run your business model. That's not your purpose. And it doesn't have to be. Client once said this recently, that actually discovering her purpose made her realise that you don't have to change the world to change your life. It doesn't have to be huge and all encompassing. It's the thing that takes you forward. It's the why behind everything you do. And the more you can drill into that, the more you can lean into that, the happier and the more content that you will be in, in relying on your own on your own skills and your own understanding of life and your own because they all tie in together. That you are the product of all of the different qualifications, you have done all the different jobs you've ever had all of the different, you know, relationships that you've been in whatever it might be all tie in together. And they all direct you in one way if you're listening.
Christina Bradley 42:49
And so that's, that's really interesting. If you're listening, what are you listening to? Because I've got thoughts on this. But how do you listen? How do you hear whatever it is that you're talking about that's guiding you, that'd speaking to you, how do you turn your attention to hear those, those messages? And what, like, talk to me about that? How do you, how do you hear what's being asked of you?
Kate Davis 43:13
So if you are a lot of it is is intuition? A lot of it is that gut instinct. That actually if you are listening to that, and too few of us actually do listen to it, and act on it.
Christina Bradley 43:29
And also, I think if I can just add to that and trust it.
Kate Davis 43:33
Yes
Christina Bradley 43:34
I think component he touched on that before about trusting the process. I was like nodding my head along with you, because I think so much of it is the resistance is the fact that we we're not able to trust and and we don't believe it, and therefore we sort of stand away from it. So I think it's also sorry to interrupt you there.
Kate Davis 43:51
Oh, no, no, I completely agree with you. How do you? How do you find your purpose? How do you find what those voices are trying to tell you? You keep asking questions. You actually employ that creativity and you get curious and you ask yourself those questions and you have you try. As I say, as an ex project manager, I can no I can explain it to you in project management methodology. That if you if you're trying to find find the root cause of a problem, it's very similar thing you would ask yourself, why five times on any on any given thing. Whether that's what you know, the car broke down, well, why did the car break down and you'll get down to the root cause of the problem. If you can do that, with the experiences that you've had in life, you could if you can pick up the first early memory that springs to mind. A conversation that will stay with you and you won't sometimes sometimes those conversations are not necessarily some of those experiences, you'll think, well, I wonder why I remember that because it doesn't, you know, it wasn't particularly exciting or meteoric or noteworthy. But that's the thing I think about most when I think about this thing, there's a reason why you why it stuck with you. That's one of the things write it down, and then ask, Well, why, why, why. And I am a massive fan of Simon Sinek, who talks a lot about why and a lot about purpose. And one of the examples that he uses is when he was helping somebody to find to find their why was that, you know, tell me about a story, a story about your childhood, when you were happiest? Oh, well, I loved hanging out with my grandparents in the summer. But when you give me a specific time, and he said all it's funny, this this, this time has just popped into my memory. I don't know why this one particular. And again, there's that process of asking, Why five times. Turns out that the time he remembers is the last time when his grandfather was alive. And the reason why it stuck with him is that his grandfather was a bit of a kook, a bit quirky, a bit different, and he's a bit quirky and different, and he was, it was the last time where he really felt that he was understood, and he was able to be him. And so you've gone from, oh, I used to like, hanging out with my grandparents to that feeling of identity and that feeling of belonging and that feeling of being able to be you. If you do that, for as many in as many instances as you can think of you will, when you get to the root cause of all of those, they will those are those golden strands that you can then start weaving together. And they will become really, really obvious, soon as you started to do that. It'll be it'll be that pattern will become really obvious in terms of the things that just stick with you all the time, the things that keep coming up in your life. And then when when the penny drops, you will just think of them a million other times where you know, of course that
Christina Bradley 47:15
It becomes so very obvious at that point.
Kate Davis 47:17
Yeah. And I often say this to people, when they when they find it, it's, it's, it will punch you in the gut. Because it feels massive. And then almost immediately afterwards, you'll go well, obviously, yeah. How did I not notice that before? I remember finding nine and actually voice noting a friend going. Am I the last person to I've got the memo on this? But still was so punch in the gut that I actually I was walking the dogs, which is where I often do my best thinking anyway. But I actually had to sit down, I actually had to sit down on a log, because it was like, Wow, really? Wow. Right? And then was immediately followed by what that was bleedin obvious wasn't it - surely it can't be that.
Christina Bradley 48:11
It's crazy, isn't it? And then just, and then having the kind of courage I suppose to act on it, and to follow it through, which is where the whole kind of trust piece comes in as well.
Kate Davis 48:18
Yeah.
Christina Bradley 48:19
But then once you've gone to all that effort to find it, you know, and it, it has come through loud and clear. You know, and you've heard it, I don't think you have a choice but to follow it, or you you perhaps do have that choice, but if you don't follow it, I think, you know, you live knowing that you're not living, you know, your truest fullest life, which is what I think is, is what a lot of people carry around anyway. But they just don't really know where to start in order to create that life. Which brings us back to this whole idea of, I think, you know, to have a happy, joyful life, you have to take control and be the person willing to create that for yourself. And it is our greatest, you know, act of creation, ultimately, I think,
Kate Davis 48:58
Yes, I completely agree with you. And is where you will be happiest. If you have listened to, if you listen to your values, if you've listened to your, to your guts, he listens to your heart and you've created a mic around that, that, that set that plays into those into the strengths that you have, that that means that you're using that purpose as that Guiding Light and through that life, then you will be happier you will be you'll be less overwhelmed, you'll be less stressed about things because you know what you're, you know what your path is. And it is that understanding that you know whether you want to call it a higher calling or an inner mission or what you know, however you want to phrase it, that actually that there's something bigger than bigger than you in your daily life that you're, you know, as you sit there, there's something bigger that you are that you are being called to do and you have been called to do the whole time, this is the path that you should be. Now go and create it.
Christina Bradley 50:07
It's really interesting. I don't know that this is even going to make sense. But as you're talking, and you're calling it purpose, everything as you're explaining in every all the way that it feels and the way that it guides. For me, that's inspiration. That's what inspiration looks like to me. . And and that's what I, you know, it starts off as a sort of a feeling of intuition. And then it's very much sort of having to follow it and follow those breadcrumbs and being willing to kind of go wherever it's taking you. And sort of commit to that process. I don't know, I don't know whether there is any parallels in that. But that's, I was thinking as you're doing that substitute the word purpose for inspiration and kind of talking about similar things.
Kate Davis 50:51
Yeah. Yes, exactly. And, I mean, it's, it's a funny thing is that it is lots of people talk about it in different ways. So when you know, lots of people will talk about, you know, your zone of genius. Or they'll talk about, some people will talk about higher calling, some people will, will decide that that's actually the, you know, they want to they want to put that into a religion. And they decide that actually, that's the universe calling me to do this or whatever. It's often the same thing. Just it's, it's all down to your gut instinct. It's all down to the thing that that drives you forward. Your intuition, your inspiration, the thing that makes you You.
Christina Bradley 51:39
Yeah, yeah. And really, as you say, being able to lean into that. And follow and trust it.
Kate Davis 51:45
Yeah, yeah.
Christina Bradley 51:48
Oh, this has been such a wonderful conversation. I've just loved every second of it. I've got one final question. And, and I would love to know what living what it means to you to live a more creative life?
Kate Davis 52:01
Oh, that's a really good question. Um, I think that I think for me it is, it's all of the things that we've we've just been talking about is, it's being able to really feel your own way in life. To be able to, to live really don't like phrase, live your best life, but live the life that makes sense to you, and lift and live the life that you want to create. You want to be around the people who you want to who you get inspiration and energy from all of those pieces of, of leaning into into what what you are really good at what you what makes you what makes you light up and hanging around with the right people who also share the same passions. That for me is, is living that more creative life hanging out with people who want to also go and play with chimpanzees.
Christina Bradley 53:04
That's brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant. Kate, if people want to work with you, or find you, how do they go about doing that?
Kate Davis 53:12
So my website is Kate Davis.net. Or come and find me the creative mindset coach on Instagram, Facebook, all the usual social media platforms. But yes, I'm the creative mindset coach.
Christina Bradley 53:25
Creative mindset coach, thank you so much for this conversation. I've just loved it. And I really hope everybody listening it's given everybody as much food for thought as it has me. So thank you so much.
Kate Davis 53:34
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
Christina Bradley 53:37
We'll do it again.
Kate Davis 53:38
Yes, please.